The Skeptics Guide to the Universe Forum

Quote from: bachfiend on September 18, 2023, 01:54:17 AMSo there's no thread now available to post articles with dubious anti-transgender actions such as FIDE banning transgender women competing in women-only chess competitions, which I'd been the first to post.

The lack of such a thread notwithstanding, I have to say, seriously, that I have no idea why woman-only chess tournaments exist. Nor can I fathom why any self-respecting woman would ever compete in one.

Quote from: jt512 on September 18, 2023, 02:18:08 AM

Quote from: bachfiend on September 18, 2023, 01:54:17 AMSo there's no thread now available to post articles with dubious anti-transgender actions such as FIDE banning transgender women competing in women-only chess competitions, which I'd been the first to post.

The lack of such a thread notwithstanding, I have to say, seriously, that I have no idea why woman-only chess tournaments exist. Nor can I fathom why any self-respecting woman would ever compete in one.

The progressive activists on the other thread thought it was due to a misogynist atmosphere in open competitions, similar to women being harassed at sceptic conferences accounting for the low proportion of females in sceptic associations.

I thought it was due to the low numbers of female chess players, and FIDE was trying to raise the public profile of women in chess by having women win chess competitions.

Of course, it could be both reasons.

Personally, I can't see any reason for having a women-only chess competition.  And if there is harassment of women in open competitions, then FIDE should do something about that.

Quote from: bachfiend on September 18, 2023, 06:35:03 AMPersonally, I can't see any reason for having a women-only chess competition.  And if there is harassment of women in open competitions, then FIDE should do something about that.

Agree.

Quote from: jt512 on September 18, 2023, 02:18:08 AM

Quote from: bachfiend on September 18, 2023, 01:54:17 AMSo there's no thread now available to post articles with dubious anti-transgender actions such as FIDE banning transgender women competing in women-only chess competitions, which I'd been the first to post.

The lack of such a thread notwithstanding, I have to say, seriously, that I have no idea why woman-only chess tournaments exist. Nor can I fathom why any self-respecting woman would ever compete in one.

Well, there are differences between men and women and some of those differences manifest in ways that go beyond genitalia, and some of those differences persist after gender transition.

If 85% or more of the world's chess masters are men, then a women's competition is probably good for the game.

And you should not judge women competing in such competitions.

Quote from: CarbShark on September 18, 2023, 04:06:51 PM

Quote from: jt512 on September 18, 2023, 02:18:08 AM

Quote from: bachfiend on September 18, 2023, 01:54:17 AMSo there's no thread now available to post articles with dubious anti-transgender actions such as FIDE banning transgender women competing in women-only chess competitions, which I'd been the first to post.

The lack of such a thread notwithstanding, I have to say, seriously, that I have no idea why woman-only chess tournaments exist. Nor can I fathom why any self-respecting woman would ever compete in one.

Well, there are differences between men and women and some of those differences manifest in ways that go beyond genitalia, and some of those differences persist after gender transition.

If 85% or more of the world's chess masters are men, then a women's competition is probably good for the game.

I don't even know what it means for something to be good for chess.

QuoteAnd you should not judge women competing in such competitions.

It's sort of self-judging. Winning an open tournament is a greater accomplishment than winning a tournament in which those 85% of the world's best champions that you mentioned have been excluded.

I think the very existence of women's chess tournaments is condescending to women, and women who compete in such tournaments are complicit in perpetuating gender stereotypes. Should we also have Black chess tournaments? Indigenous chess tournaments? What else should we gender segregate? Math olympiads? Chemistry classes?

This thread is for the discussion of all things chess. But remember:

Quote[THE ARBITER]
I've a duty as a referee
At the start of a match
On behalf of all our sponsors
I must welcome you
Which I do-- there's a catch:
I don't care if you're a champion
No one messes with me
I am ruthless in upholding
What I know is right
Black or white, as you'll see

[THE ARBITER & SOLOISTS]
I'm on the case
Can't be fooled
Any objection
Is overruled

[THE ARBITER]
Yes, I'm the Arbiter
And I know best

[SOLOISTS]
He's impartial
Don't push him
He's unimpressed
You might also like
Hymn To Chess
Chess in Concert
I Know Him So Well
Chess in Concert
The Soviet Machine
Chess in Concert
[THE ARBITER & SOLOISTS]
You got your tricks
Good for you
But there's no gambit
I don't see through

[THE ARBITER]
Oh, I'm the Arbiter
I know the score

[THE ARBITER & SOLOISTS]
From square one
I'll be watching all 64

Quote from: jt512 on September 18, 2023, 12:27:08 PM

Quote from: bachfiend on September 18, 2023, 06:35:03 AMPersonally, I can't see any reason for having a women-only chess competition.  And if there is harassment of women in open competitions, then FIDE should do something about that.

Agree.

I can think of several reasons:

A way to promote more women into what is a heavily male dominated game.
Women may feel less intimidated playing against women players.
In professional tournaments they have more of a chance to earn a title and/or money.

The best women players will of course want to test their skills in an Open tournament.

My father taught me the moves when I was 5, but he knew little more of the game than the moves. My grandfather taught me to play, but the only opening he knew was P-K4, P-K4; B-B4; B-B4; P-Q3, P-Q3; then the knights each to its B4 square, and then I never knew what to do next. My grandfather beat me every game.

In high school I played against a classmate  who taught me a few basic openings and a bit of strategy. He always talked about Aron Nimzowitsch's book My System, which revolutionized chess with concepts such as overprotection, prophylaxis, and controlling the center, as opposed to occupying it. My friend insisted that I was not ready to read My System.

When I went back home after high school I continued to play chess with my grandfather every week, but now, armed with some openings, I won every game. Later I remembered my friend's obsession with Nimzowitsch, and read the book.

A few years later, in Moorhead, Minnesota, I played chess with a college professor who was a friend, and against whom I was very evenly matched. There was a chess tournament and I entered the novice division, having never played in a tournament before. My professor friend agreed to help me prepare by playing openings with me. We'd play enough moves that I felt I could tell who had the advantage, then we'd start over. I invented an opening of my own which was basically playing the King's Indian defense with the white pieces. There's no doubt that my opening would have failed utterly against a good player, but against a novice, who knew the standard openings but not what to do against a non-standard opening, it was devastating. I won the novice division.

The first-place prize in the novice division was supposed to be a free one-year membership in the USCF, worth $10 at the time (c. 1971 or 2) ($72 in 2023 money) but there was a tie for 3rd place, and the guy running the tournament didn't want to leave out either of them, so instead of the membership, he gave me $5 cash ($36 today) and suggested I use it with $5 of my own toward the membership. I felt cheated, kept the $5, and never joined the USCF and never entered another chess tournament.

A couple of years later, when I was trying to find a farmhouse in the country to rent, and nobody would rent to me because they thought that single men just wanted an isolated house to party in, I phoned a guy who had a farmhouse to rent and he turned out to be a chess player, and remembered my name as the winner of the novice division of that tournament. He had played in the open division but we'd never met. He just remembered my name, and he rented me the house so he'd have someone to play chess with. After 2 years he wanted the house back for a hired hand, but by then I was known in the area and another farmer offered to rent me a house. I lived in that area for two decades.

In Mexico I played at the local chess club where one of the other players was the number-two lover of a woman I became friends with a year or two after that. (I.e. I knew him before I knew her.) And another member of the club later became the number-one lover of the same woman. Those two guys were, respectively, the absolute worst, and the absolute best players at that club. I was about middle of the pack, winning about as many as I lost.

Also in those days I played chess online on ICC (the Internet Chess Club) IIRC. But broadband did not exist. I connected to the net via a phone modem, and got disconnected often enough that eventually I quit. Before the internet I sometimes played postal chess. Send a move on a postcard, get a move back by return mail. My declining mental acuity with age has affected my play. But, though I was never rated, I did play a number of games against a 1700-rated player around the time I was at my peak, and I won about one in three. So I believe I'd have been around 1600 if I'd been rated.

These days I play chess against the Shredder Chess app on my tablet. In an even game I would lose every time, no contest at all. So I give myself odds and can occasionally win that way.

Chess is the one game I have always liked. Card and dice games are all about chance. Card games you are always trying to guess what card your opponent has. Poker is a bluffing game. But there's no chance and nothing hidden in chess. Your opponent's pieces are all right there for you to see. And while the white pieces have a slight advantage, in chess you always take turns playing white. If you play the black pieces this game you get to play the white pieces next game, regardless of the outcome of this game. People who don't understand the game occasionally say that Chess is a war game. But this is not true. In war if the king has nowhere to go he will be captured. In chess if the king has nowhere to go and there is no move that won't put him in check, but he's not in check at the moment, it's a draw, a stalemate. One player can have several strong pieces on the board and the other can have nothing but his king, and if the king is not in check and has no move that wouldn't put him in check, it's a draw. In war a situation like that would have the king captured or killed. Chess is a game of pure symbolic logic.

Sometimes I watch youtube videos of chess problems. I can never solve them, but I love seeing the solutions play out.

I look forward to reading everyone else's chess stories.

Quote from: Tassie Dave on September 18, 2023, 09:27:30 PMIn professional tournaments they have more of a chance to earn a title and/or money.

Yeah, the could win the title Best Female Chess Player, which is condescending and implies that women can't compete with men in chess.

Quote from: Tassie Dave on September 18, 2023, 09:27:30 PM

Quote from: jt512 on September 18, 2023, 12:27:08 PM

Quote from: bachfiend on September 18, 2023, 06:35:03 AMPersonally, I can't see any reason for having a women-only chess competition.  And if there is harassment of women in open competitions, then FIDE should do something about that.

Agree.

I can think of several reasons:

A way to promote more women into what is a heavily male dominated game.
Women may feel less intimidated playing against women players.

I have more respect for women than that.

QuoteIn professional tournaments they have more of a chance to earn a title and/or money.

Yeah, they could win the title Best Female Chess Player, which gives the impression of "best chess player, well, at least for a girl."

I learned the descriptive notation for chess (Pawn to King's Bishop 3), but I've never actually been good at the game. My failure is always in seeing the board position - I keep missing that rook about to take my queen.

Quote from: Tassie Dave on September 18, 2023, 09:27:30 PM

Quote from: jt512 on September 18, 2023, 12:27:08 PM

Quote from: bachfiend on September 18, 2023, 06:35:03 AMPersonally, I can't see any reason for having a women-only chess competition.  And if there is harassment of women in open competitions, then FIDE should do something about that.

Agree.

I can think of several reasons:

A way to promote more women into what is a heavily male dominated game.
Women may feel less intimidated playing against women players.
In professional tournaments they have more of a chance to earn a title and/or money.

The best women players will of course want to test their skills in an Open tournament.

The trouble is is that the big money is in open competitions not in women-only competitions. Chess players get invited to play in the big open competitions by beating players with higher rankings leading them to rise in the chess ratings.

Women chess players won't rise in the chess ratings unless they play and win against higher ranked players in open competitions.  So if they're ambitious, then they have to play in open competitions, and avoid women-only competitions.

Women chess players should be just as good as men chess players, unlike physical sports, such as tennis, in which the top 250 male players will defeat the top female player - so in tennis there should be a women-only competition - and the prizes should be similar.

I'm sure women are glad that we males are telling them what they want 

That women's chess tournaments exist, shows that some women want them.

The best will play in the open tournaments and the others will do whatever they want.

Some women don't want to deal with the sexism and harassment that can come with playing against men.

Quote from: Tassie Dave on September 19, 2023, 12:35:25 AMI'm sure women are glad that we males are telling them what they want.

Then maybe you should stop telling them what they want:

QuoteSome women don't want to deal with the sexism and harassment that can come with playing against men.

Typical of progressive activists to proscribe where and what people should read.

And chess isn't a game, it's a sport, at least according to FIDE, which is why they decided that transgender women shouldn't be allowed to participate in women-only chess competitions.

Whenever politics gets involved, crazy decisions get made, as with the upcoming Australian referendum on the Voice, and the constitutional recognition of indigenous Australians.  Many of the 'no' supporters reckon it's politics, whereas it's just common decency and human rights.

Quote from: bachfiend on September 19, 2023, 01:26:08 AMAnd chess isn't a game, it's a sport...

We don't have a "Sports" subforum so this is the best you get.