The Skeptics Guide to the Universe Forum

I think its a pretty simple principle that children should not be allowed to play sports where there is a reasonable expectation of such injuries.
And thats whats wrong with wanting to 'be the best'.
Nationally, countries or regions will be worried that they will fall behind their neighbours/competitors in being able to field experienced and skilled players once they are old enough to consent.

Fwiw, I definitely think there is something very wrong with someone who specifically wants to be 'better' than other people as opposed to the best version of themselves measured against themselves.
Using the performance of others as a yard stick? Totally sensible.
Using it as the reason you get out of bed? Get therapy.

I've recently started watching soccer, and I wondered whether chronic traumatic encephalopathy occurs in soccer too owing to the players heading the soccer ball.

It does:

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/sports/what-is-cte-and-how-often-are-soccer-players-diagnosed-with-it/2870811/#:~:text=While%20blows%20to%20the%20head,are%20prone%20to%20the%20disease.

It's a relatively non-contact sport, with the referees giving yellow (a warning) and red cards (sending the offending player off the ground) for illegal tackles.

Quote from: bachfiend on November 20, 2023, 04:35:00 PMIt's a relatively non-contact sport, with the referees giving yellow (a warning) and red cards (sending the offending player off the ground) for illegal tackles.

No, it's a contact sport.

And "tackles" are just one thing that can earn a foul, caution or send-off. (A "tackle" in soccer is not the same as a "tackle" in Rugby, Aussie or American football. "Tackle" in soccer means to take the ball away from an opponent who is in control of the ball, which is legal, but if it's done with a foul then the foul is illegal).

Referees call fouls for careless contact, like hitting, pushing, charging or kicking someone. If the referee deems the foul reckless (worse than just careless) they caution the player (a yellow card) and if it's done with excessive force they send-off the player (a red card). There are other reasons for yellow and red cards, most not involving contact or "illegal tackles," which really isn't a thing. There's no list of tackles that are illegal.

Quote from: CarbShark on November 20, 2023, 04:46:04 PM

Quote from: bachfiend on November 20, 2023, 04:35:00 PMIt's a relatively non-contact sport, with the referees giving yellow (a warning) and red cards (sending the offending player off the ground) for illegal tackles.

No, it's a contact sport.

And "tackles" are just one thing that can earn a foul, caution or send-off. (A "tackle" in soccer is not the same as a "tackle" in Rugby, Aussie or American football. "Tackle" in soccer means to take the ball away from an opponent who is in control of the ball, which is legal, but if it's done with a foul then the foul is illegal).

Referees call fouls for careless contact, like hitting, pushing, charging or kicking someone. If the referee deems the foul reckless (worse than just careless) they caution the player (a yellow card) and if it's done with excessive force they send-off the player (a red card). There are other reasons for yellow and red cards, most not involving contact or "illegal tackles," which really isn't a thing. There's no list of tackles that are illegal.

I said it's a relatively non-contact sport not that it's a non-contact sport.  It's possible to sustain chronic traumatic encephalopathy without being tackled by opposing players, by soccer players heading the ball, which is part of the game.

Quote from: Harry Black on November 20, 2023, 04:36:27 AMHeadgear in boxing seems likely to cause more brain damage.

I have the same view of helmets in American Football. It can be argued that the players are sustaining worse long term brain injury (CTE) by wearing the helmets. They go in much harder and faster than they would if they weren't wearing a helmet.





 

Quote from: Tassie Dave on November 20, 2023, 08:24:35 PM

Quote from: Harry Black on November 20, 2023, 04:36:27 AMHeadgear in boxing seems likely to cause more brain damage.

I have the same view of helmets in American Football. It can be argued that the players are sustaining worse long term brain injury (CTE) by wearing the helmets. They go in much harder and faster than they would if they weren't wearing a helmet.





 

Chronic traumatic encephalopathy is caused by repeated concussion.  Concussion is caused by rotation injuries.  Helmets are good at preventing direct injuries, such as scalp lacerations, bruises and skull fractures, not so good at preventing rotation injuries.

I'm bemused by the rare AFL player who wears a very light helmet, thinking that he's protecting himself from serious injury.

Quote from: Tassie Dave on November 20, 2023, 08:24:35 PM

Quote from: Harry Black on November 20, 2023, 04:36:27 AMHeadgear in boxing seems likely to cause more brain damage.

I have the same view of helmets in American Football. It can be argued that the players are sustaining worse long term brain injury (CTE) by wearing the helmets. They go in much harder and faster than they would if they weren't wearing a helmet.

American Football would be impossible without helmets.

Also, their helmets have come a long way in the last few years.

Quote from: bachfiend on November 20, 2023, 09:39:55 PM

Quote from: Tassie Dave on November 20, 2023, 08:24:35 PM

Quote from: Harry Black on November 20, 2023, 04:36:27 AMHeadgear in boxing seems likely to cause more brain damage.

I have the same view of helmets in American Football. It can be argued that the players are sustaining worse long term brain injury (CTE) by wearing the helmets. They go in much harder and faster than they would if they weren't wearing a helmet.

Chronic traumatic encephalopathy is caused by repeated concussion.  Concussion is caused by rotation injuries.  Helmets are good at preventing direct injuries, such as scalp lacerations, bruises and skull fractures, not so good at preventing rotation injuries.

I'm bemused by the rare AFL player who wears a very light helmet, thinking that he's protecting himself from serious injury.

Most AFL players who have worn helmets do it to protect a previous impact injury. It will get them back into the game faster while the bone damage is still healing.

Caleb Daniel is an exception. He started wearing a helmet in his junior days, because it was the only way his mother would let him play and he just kept wearing it.

You do see it more in the AFLW. I think it is because of the higher rate of concussions and the lower impact required that causes some women to wear them. I don't think it makes a great difference, except peace of mind.

There was one female player (Heather Anderson) who wore a bright pink helmet so her visually impaired mother could recognise her on the field more easily (As well as to try and reduce concussion). Unfortunately she committed suicide last year and was found to have had CTE. She was the first Female Professional Athlete in the world to be Diagnosed with Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy.

Quote from: Tassie Dave on November 20, 2023, 08:24:35 PM

Quote from: Harry Black on November 20, 2023, 04:36:27 AMHeadgear in boxing seems likely to cause more brain damage.

I have the same view of helmets in American Football. It can be argued that the players are sustaining worse long term brain injury (CTE) by wearing the helmets. They go in much harder and faster than they would if they weren't wearing a helmet.





 

There is increasing evidence that "sub concussive impacts" are as or more important in CTE than concussions. So of course there are the hard head to head collisions with helmets, but also guys just bumping heads together somewhat lightly by comparison. Would be extremely painful unprotected but hardly noticeable with a helmet. With no helmet they would try to avoid such collisions