Contact sports and brain damage

[daniel1948]

It's nothing new that contact sports cause severe brain damage. An article in the NY Times (NY Times articles are paywalled; you might be able to read a limited number for free each month) details the large number of deaths among children who play tackle football. Warning: This article is very distressing. Many of these children stopped playing after high school but died of their injuries before the age of 30.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/11/16/us/cte-youth-football.html

Hockey, soccer, and wrestling also kill a large number of young athletes, though fewer than (American tackle) football.

These "sports" cause lifelong damage even to the athletes who don't die young or from the direct result of their injuries. Probably everybody who plays these sorts of contact sports (one interviewee called them "collision sports") ends up with some level of brain damage.

All in the belief that they're somehow showing loyalty to or support of their school or team, or just in the competitive mindset that it's important to win, to beat the other guy or the other team. Or worst of all, to provide entertainment for people who enjoy watching the conflict of opposing teams violently smashing into each other, or who enjoy watching two people beating the shit out of each other.

Meanwhile, non-competitive sports (jogging, cycling, swimming, paddling, hiking, etc.) provide fun, healthy exercise without the need to be the "best" at anything.

[Awatsjr]

Nothing wrong with wanting to be the best.

[CarbShark]

Probably everybody who plays these sorts of contact sports (one interviewee called them "collision sports") ends up with some level of brain damage.

Haven't read the pay-walled article, but that is false as it pertains to Soccer and other sports. Maybe American football or Rugby?

Also, in Soccer, world wide, there has been a serious effort to eliminate brain injury.

• For ages 12 and under, no deliberate heading the ball
• For ages 14 and under, no repetitive heading the ball during practice
• At all ages whenever there is a potential head injury play is stopped and the player is evaluated

[daniel1948]

Nothing wrong with wanting to be the best.

It pits people against each other and prevents cooperation. In team sports it results in less-skilled individuals being harassed, insulted and generally ostracized.

Probably everybody who plays these sorts of contact sports (one interviewee called them "collision sports") ends up with some level of brain damage.

Haven't read the pay-walled article, but that is false as it pertains to Soccer and other sports. Maybe American football or Rugby?

Also, in Soccer, world wide, there has been a serious effort to eliminate brain injury.

• For ages 12 and under, no deliberate heading the ball
• For ages 14 and under, no repetitive heading the ball during practice
• At all ages whenever there is a potential head injury play is stopped and the player is evaluated

The article mentions that in all sports, awareness of the risks of brain injury is resulting in improved safety measures, but injuries and deaths of young people continue, including in soccer. I am sure that in your league everything is done to reduce risks, but that's certainly not the case everywhere. Soccer as it's played by youngsters in the U.S. is probably the least dangerous of the sports mentioned. Though when I was in high school it was common for kids to kick the ball as hard as possible at an opposing player's head or genitals in an intentional attempt to cause pain.

The comment about everybody in these sports getting injured to some degree is my own opinion, and while "everybody" is used figuratively, I stand by my opinion. Where one person dies of brain injury, there are probably a hundred others who have some level of impairment from lesser degrees of injury.

[puddingface]

JFC, if the collisions/contacts are eliminated then its not a contact or collision sport. Soccer modified to exclude heading the ball and flag football are not included in "these sorts of contact sports"if contact is incidental and not a key part of the game.

[CarbShark]

FYI, this season, in my Soccer division (Under 14) more players have been injured in non-competitive activities including bicycling, skateboarding, roller skating, rock climbing and hiking than in soccer or soccer practice. One kid sprained his ankle skateboarding, then sprained his wrist rollerskating then got a concussion rock climbing. He had no injuries in Soccer.

Here's a true story (I may have shared this before).

Way back in 2017, we had implemented a concussion awareness protocol where if someone had a potential head injury we would take them out of the game and then ask them a series of questions. If they take a long time to answer a simple question that's a potential sign.

After a collision on the field a player named Jimmy was taken to the touch-line by the coach, and he asked:

What's your name?
Jimmy.

What day is today?
Saturday.

Who is President of the United States
Um... uh...

Jimmy, who is the President?
It's .... well...

Jimmy, do you know whe the President is?
  Yea, it's Donald Fucking Trump.

OK, you're fine.

[daniel1948]

JFC, if the collisions/contacts are eliminated then its not a contact or collision sport. Soccer modified to exclude heading the ball and flag football are not included in "these sorts of contact sports"if contact is incidental and not a key part of the game.

^ This.

CarbShark's soccer league is not playing soccer as a contact sport. And kudos to CarbShark and his league for minimizing the head-injury risk and taking it seriously.

[CarbShark]

JFC, if the collisions/contacts are eliminated then its not a contact or collision sport. Soccer modified to exclude heading the ball and flag football are not included in "these sorts of contact sports"if contact is incidental and not a key part of the game.

^ This.

CarbShark's soccer league is not playing soccer as a contact sport. And kudos to CarbShark and his league for minimizing the head-injury risk and taking it seriously.

So, first, Soccer is soccer. It is a contact sport, but not a collision sport. The only things we're banning are kids under 12 intentionally heading the ball and too many headers in practice. The example I gave earlier happened when two 13 or 14-year-olds, both trying to head a ball, bonked heads. That's not uncommon. Collisions on the fields, and contact (unintentional and otherwise) happen all the time.

Second, I coach AYSO, but I ref at several levels of youth soccer (club, semi-pro, Jr. high and, next year, high school). All have basically the same concussion protocols and, where applicable, all ban 12 and under from heading the ball.

[Tassie Dave]

Aussie Rules, Rugby, cricket, Hockey (Field), Horse racing (plus most other major sports) in Oz takes head injuries seriously and has taken huge measures to eliminate and/or mitigate head injuries.

Aussie Rules & Rugby (League & Union) have banned any tackle that could, potentially, cause head injury. Players face penalties for any play that causes contact with the head. These can range from free kicks against for minor contact, to sin bin (a sending off in Rugby League) to missing many games for major contact.

Most sports are trying to coach players out of playing styles that cause head high contact.

Cricket, after the death of an Australian player in 2014, have redesigned helmets. (Phil Hughes died days after being hit in the temple by a ball that knocked him out and put him in a coma. He was wearing a helmet)  The ICC (The International Cricket Council) has also introduced Head Injury Assessments for any hit to the head in matches whether the player is wearing a helmet or not. Helmets are now mandatory in Australia for batters facing medium or fast bowlers.

It is impossible to eliminate all risks and keep full contact sport enjoyable for both the participants and the viewers.

Meanwhile, non-competitive sports (jogging, cycling, swimming, paddling, hiking, etc.) provide fun, healthy exercise without the need to be the "best" at anything.

All of those sports have competitive competitions where people try to be the best and many risk death and major injury to do them. We have many mountain bike trails, that people do for fun, that are down the steep side of a mountain. There is no medal or title for doing them. Death or serious injury would result if you crashed at speed.

There is a thrill for some people at testing their limits. Not everyone wants to do sport safely and co-operatively. Danger and competition can be a major driving force for many sports people.

Cycling is a sport where many people die doing it competitively and for fun. All sports you mention have a risk element, especially if done in the "wild" i.e open ocean, the bush etc and done at the limits of a persons capability.

[Tassie Dave]

I couldn't read the article without subscribing, so I don't know whether the story goes into sports where head injuries are done on purpose.

In my younger days I was a fan of boxing. I started to fall out when the thugs like Tyson came into the sport and we started to see champions like Ali deteriorating physically.

Now I can't stand the sport and think it should be discouraged at the youth levels. I know they have padded helmets and restrictions in the amateurs and junior ranks, but I am not a fan of sports where trying to hurt your opponent is encouraged.

Don't even get me started on MMA and that Slap Fighting BS. They are just sports for people who love violence.

[daniel1948]

I couldn't read the article without subscribing, so I don't know whether the story goes into sports where head injuries are done on purpose.

In my younger days I was a fan of boxing. I started to fall out when the thugs like Tyson came into the sport and we started to see champions like Ali deteriorating physically.

Now I can't stand the sport and think it should be discouraged at the youth levels. I know they have padded helmets and restrictions in the amateurs and junior ranks, but I am not a fan of sports where trying to hurt your opponent is encouraged.

Don't even get me started on MMA and that Slap Fighting BS. They are just sports for people who love violence.

The article doesn't go into those, but it should have. The object of boxing is to cause your opponent a concussion, which is to say temporary unconsciousness. It's utterly barbaric. And it says something very unflattering about humans and our society that people consider this to be either "sport" or entertainment.

[Harry Black]

Headgear in boxing seems likely to cause more brain damage. It was recently recommended that headgear be removed for the safety of amatuer fighters but sports bodies refused due the the aesthetic concerns over blood and the perception of safety. Or maybe they just arent big fans of evidence based regulation.

When you dont have to worry about breaking your hand on someones skull, you can throw punches with far more force than you would otherwise.

Boxing is a very problematic sport imo because its traditionally so highly valued in many low income cultures as a way for kids to get out of poverty or gain renown for the community/family.
Where Im from, kids practice boxing in car parks and public spaces and illegal bare knuckle fights for young men that failed to qualify for pro contracts or the olympics are a common place way for certain communities to earn extra cash.

I know a few guys who did such fights in their 20s and have serious issues now in their early 30s, having trained hard from the age of 5 or so.

[daniel1948]

The whole idea of elite competitive sports as a "way to get out of poverty" is deeply flawed. Because out of a thousand kids, one might make it to the pros. And when the other 999 end up with brain damage for the entertainment of couch potatoes, it becomes positively barbaric.

At least with baseball (or soccer the way CarbShark's league regulates it) the 999 kids who don't make it to the pros have gotten some healthy exercise.

The whole purpose of boxing is to cause your opponent brain damage (i.e. a knockout). Failing that, to beat the shit out of each other. People can talk about the "beauty" of seeing good technique all they like; the bottom line is that the fans are just fucking assholes who enjoy seeing people getting beaten to a pulp.

[DevoutCatalyst]

How do you feel about MMA? Far more gore than boxing.



Knockout of the month !

[daniel1948]

How do you feel about MMA? Far more gore than boxing.

Obviously, it's worse. I didn't mention it because I actually know virtually nothing about it. From the context of my post I assume anybody would understand that the same applies to any "sport" where the objective is to beat the shit out of each other and/or to cause physical bodily injury.

I'm pretty sure that there are a whole slew of such "sports." Probably many more than I could name. If boxing is (as I suppose) the most "tame" "sport" in the category, then obviously my comments apply even more to all the others.